This is a cross-reference thread to the one in MTTc, but given the importance of the allegations and potential for this scandal to become very significant encompassing multiple site investigations (given the players involved), it is important that it gets more exposure and be posted/seen/discussed in NVG as well.
Cliff: very long chat log between Sorel Mizzi (zangbezan24) and Steve Weinstein (Thorladen) regarding potential and possibility for cheating/collusion, discussed in detail, including ghosting, multi-accounting, and using gotomypc, etc. to control multiple PCs remotely for the purpose of cheating online.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61...rladen-857685/
some in the MTTc thread were able to put the timeline as 2 years ago, but the content of the chat is EXTREMELY important and damaging, with significant implications for those who are potentially involved... it seems investigations have already begun, at least by FTP, according to the post by thorladen:
this is the response thorladen posted in the other thread, 3 days after the thread was started:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorladen
I have not engaged in this activity with Sorel. I would not engage
in this activity ever. I am voluntarily cooperating completely with Full Tilt
in an investigation of these alleged activities.
The chat log was posted by a newbie on 2+2 and the thread was initially locked, but then re-opened with an added disclaimer that you see before the chat log. The OP in disclaimer is NOT me, its 'waxonchris'
DISCLAIMER: OP has provided no evidence for the authenticity of this chatlog, nor does he have any history/reputation/credibility in the community upon which we can rely. That said, things like this will be talked about, and they may as well be talked about in the open. -- mlagoo
Chat Log:
Sorel- Toronto says:
hey steve
thor says:
hey
Sorel- Toronto says:
can i ask you a question?
thor says:
sure
Sorel- Toronto says:
what do you value a players makeup at?
Sorel- Toronto says:
I mean
Sorel- Toronto says:
obviously it depends on the player
Sorel- Toronto says:
and how deep they are in makeup
thor says:
yeh i dont back for tourneys s o not sure
Sorel- Toronto says:
ohh ok
Sorel- Toronto says:
you're backing boykee for tournaments tho, arnt you?
thor says:
yeh jsut occasionaly
thor says:
i did for wsop
Sorel- Toronto says:
aah okay
Sorel- Toronto says:
are you going to be backing him for future tournaments? online and live?
Sorel- Toronto says:
im flying the people i stake down to toronto to play in the ftops
thor says:
i do back him online
thor says:
i back him for everything online
thor says:
not sure live
thor says:
i odnt like backing live tourneys
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya same
Sorel- Toronto says:
not good for the ol' br
thor says:
yeh
thor says:
plus i buy pieces of so many ppl at face value
thor says:
really so much better
Sorel- Toronto says:
hmm
Sorel- Toronto says:
i think id respectfully disagree with oyu on that one
thor says:
how?
Sorel- Toronto says:
having makeup is the nuts for a backer
thor says:
yeh but if i buy 10% for 10% of price how can u do better
Sorel- Toronto says:
its almost impossible to lose unless the person is unloyal or you run out of money
Sorel- Toronto says:
its more of a gamble though
thor says:
yeh
Sorel- Toronto says:
i agree it's good, esp for large fields
thor says:
i guess both ok
thor says:
like i cant lose eith4er my way
Sorel- Toronto says:
why not?
thor says:
cuz im buying alot of value for cheaper then iths worth so if i do alot of it
thor says:
i have to win
thor says:
its like overall portfolio rather then individuals
thor says:
hey wat was big sectret u wanted to tell me
thor says:
i was w roman so u said later
Sorel- Toronto says:
I guess ur right
Sorel- Toronto says:
well its pretty huge
Sorel- Toronto says:
like overwhelmingly huge
thor says:
k
thor says:
hit me
Sorel- Toronto says:
oaky but gonna have to ask you keep it completely between us until im more comfortable with the program
and it's functions
thor says:
k promise
Sorel- Toronto says:
and then we can figure out a way that we can both profit from this
Sorel- Toronto says:
okay well
Sorel- Toronto says:
have you ever heard of a remote access PC?
thor says:
yeh
thor says:
i have it dont use it at moment
thor says:
vpn
Sorel- Toronto says:
which do you use, and for what purpose
Sorel- Toronto says:
ah
thor says:
have it set up i thk
thor says:
just havent gone there
Sorel- Toronto says:
have u heard of gotomypc?
thor says:
yeh
thor says:
i have a tech guy
thor says:
he does all my ****
thor says:
security and ****
thor says:
everyintg
Sorel- Toronto says:
are you aware of it's features?
thor says:
not really
thor says:
i know u can control it
thor says:
form anywhere
Sorel- Toronto says:
i mean, i heard of the program a long time ago but i didnt know how much u could do with it
Sorel- Toronto says:
yeah
Sorel- Toronto says:
you can control someones PC while on your own
thor says:
yeh
Sorel- Toronto says:
and you can control multiple peoples PC's
thor says:
didint know that
Sorel- Toronto says:
and you can watch multiple screens
thor says:
didnt kow thaqt either
Sorel- Toronto says:
it revolutionizes teaching/ghosting in poker
Sorel- Toronto says:
it can also be used for multiaccounting
thor says:
yeh i was using beam my screan for teaching
Sorel- Toronto says:
im surprised no ones ever brought this up on the forums
Sorel- Toronto says:
like someone could play 6 + accounts at once
Sorel- Toronto says:
in the same tournament
thor says:
yeh i can see th m;/a advantages
Sorel- Toronto says:
and it would be untraceable
thor says:
i wanted to set one up in canada at boykee moms house
thor says:
the vpn
Sorel- Toronto says:
man
Sorel- Toronto says:
its so quick and easy its sick
thor says:
yeh i know insane to not have it
Sorel- Toronto says:
like i could watch ur screen right now if u logged in and added your computer
thor says:
while im certainly interested in whatever u thinking
thor says:
if u want me in
thor says:
but obv i have to know woh knows cuz i cant get busted
thor says:
i have alot of maoney online
thor says:
cant lowse it
Sorel- Toronto says:
the only people who know about this are the people i stake
thor says:
yeh but how trustworthy?
thor says:
i cant really go down
Sorel- Toronto says:
chris, adi , jonathan... and my friend richard
Sorel- Toronto says:
extremely
Sorel- Toronto says:
like roman, oz and bushman to u
thor says:
ah ok
thor says:
thqats all i needed to hear
Sorel- Toronto says:
yep
Sorel- Toronto says:
now theres more than 1 way we can profit from this program obv
Sorel- Toronto says:
the most obvious is just watching and taking over for your stakes when they're deep in a tournament
Sorel- Toronto says:
the beauty of it is
Sorel- Toronto says:
ur not logging in from another IP
Sorel- Toronto says:
all you're doing is controlling their mouse and keyboard
thor says:
yeh thats sick
Sorel- Toronto says:
and they can take it over again right away with the click of a mouse
Sorel- Toronto says:
ive been experimenting with the program for about 2 weeks
Sorel- Toronto says:
and now im very familiar with it
Sorel- Toronto says:
hypothetically
Sorel- Toronto says:
imagine if 20+ PC's were set up in various locations or in the same location but with various IP's
Sorel- Toronto says:
and different people could login to any of them at any given time
thor says:
yeh thas sick
Sorel- Toronto says:
and like actually having an office
Sorel- Toronto says:
where people play from
Sorel- Toronto says:
all with computers under different IP's
Sorel- Toronto says:
it would be crazy
thor says:
yeh so are u doing this alone or u looking for me to be w u?
Sorel- Toronto says:
well, im not in great shape financially right now.. im sure u heard about what happened in europe ... i
desperately want to expand but i dont have the resources to back more people , struggling enough backing
the players i already have
thor says:
yeh i did herar
thor says:
sux
thor says:
while im certainly open to try to work somehign out
Sorel- Toronto says:
so yes, im looking for a partner and im looking to get a group of trustworthy and loyal players together
thor says:
i usually partner roman
thor says:
in **** i do
Sorel- Toronto says:
i see
thor says:
dont have to but like to
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya, how do these guys all feel about ghosting / multiaccounting etc
thor says:
roman dont care
thor says:
other guys dont either
thor says:
but i wouldnt bring them in
thor says:
just roman
thor says:
most likely
Sorel- Toronto says:
okay
Sorel- Toronto says:
i can set everything up from my end
thor says:
we dont do it but we dont judge it
thor says:
or have prob w it
Sorel- Toronto says:
funny thing is i never considered mutliaccounting until i got banned on ftp
thor says:
ha yeh
thor says:
i tried it once l ng time ago but hated using two comps
Sorel- Toronto says:
now , i just wanna mutliaccount the **** out of the ftops
thor says:
im too old
Sorel- Toronto says:
right
Sorel- Toronto says:
me too
Sorel- Toronto says:
thats what i hate
thor says:
yeh
Sorel- Toronto says:
thats why this program is so valuable
thor says:
but morally no problem
thor says:
dont want it out though
Sorel- Toronto says:
because u can have 4 accounts in the same tournament on the same screen
Sorel- Toronto says:
obvi
thor says:
thatws sick
Sorel- Toronto says:
yep , so sick
thor says:
well i thk u gotta thk abt how much money we need and how partnership will work
thor says:
im a big fan of yours as u know
Sorel- Toronto says:
thor says:
so im a good partner for u for many reasons
Sorel- Toronto says:
i have a sponsorship worth over 300k per year, if this gets out my rep is finished and so is my
contract.... i wouldn't do anything to compromise neither of our reputations
Sorel- Toronto says:
but this is too big to ignore
thor says:
im the guy going around saying sorel has been the greatest pays money auto never problem great player
great guy
thor says:
s o.
thor says:
i >3 u
Sorel- Toronto says:
haha thx man
thor says:
yeh makes sense u got tons to lose to
thor says:
just have to trust your judgment on yo9ur ppl
thor says:
i dont like to do thqat
thor says:
but have to
thor says:
we gona need a way to move the money
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya same here.. i dont know roman enough to judge him as someone i would trust with this info.. but i know
u enough to know that if u trust him its okay with me....
thor says:
i have alot of accts
Sorel- Toronto says:
chris and adi have been loyal to me since day 1
thor says:
k
thor says:
roman is like family to me
Sorel- Toronto says:
if they wanted to screw me over they would have done it a long time ago
thor says:
who is chris
thor says:
i know adi
thor says:
he ok
Sorel- Toronto says:
cdbr3799
thor says:
i dont konw him
Sorel- Toronto says:
these guys dont even have to know you're involved
Sorel- Toronto says:
why would they?
thor says:
roman coming to my house aug 6th for wek
Sorel- Toronto says:
i want to try this out big for the ftops coming up
thor says:
yeh true the less they know the better
Sorel- Toronto says:
me you and roman could all have action in each other and ev1 else
Sorel- Toronto says:
or
Sorel- Toronto says:
just ev1 else
thor says:
i like 3 way partnership
thor says:
so we all on same side
Sorel- Toronto says:
yep
thor says:
we weill play games too but we can work that out
Sorel- Toronto says:
but it gets a little complicated
Sorel- Toronto says:
because my guys are in makeup right now and im sure boykee and the other ppl u want to involve are as well
thor says:
no they all profit
Sorel- Toronto says:
my guys are in history low makeup tho, theyve all hadnice scores recently
Sorel- Toronto says:
oh, u must have a differernt staking deal than i
thor says:
yeh mine is just online
Sorel- Toronto says:
ours is more bax / sheets style deal
thor says:
mostly games
thor says:
yeh i have them build accts
Sorel- Toronto says:
where as soon as they profit they get right back into makeup
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya
Sorel- Toronto says:
let me calculate how much ftops will cost per person / account
thor says:
can u send me link to ftoops sched?
Sorel- Toronto says:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/promoti...s/schedule.php
thor says:
ty
Sorel- Toronto says:
np
Sorel- Toronto says:
heres what i can offer:
1) I can ghost all the people staked in the mid / deep stages of tournaments.. obviously only mid if its
not too busy
2) I can set up most of the stars/ ftp accounts .. set up all the remote PC's and make it easy for
everyone to login and manage all the players / trouble shoot all gotomypc problems
Sorel- Toronto says:
3) I already have 4 horses that are loyal and comfortable with this idea.. and i can get more as needed
Sorel- Toronto says:
4) I can make a decent sized investment and guarantee the rest if need be
Sorel- Toronto says:
1 2 and 3 kinda compensate for 4
thor says:
yeh
thor says:
but i thk even if u dont put up alot of money u still in for it
thor says:
cuz if we deep me and roman can play to
thor says:
we pretty good at torneys now
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya but i want to have an equal share.. i can probably put up most of it depending on how much we're
talking about
Sorel- Toronto says:
i think we should raise 100k each
Sorel- Toronto says:
and have 300k in the fund
thor says:
yeh we need numbers
Sorel- Toronto says:
do you think thats a good number?
thor says:
i dont kow havent looked at shed
thor says:
cuz in lots of games
Sorel- Toronto says:
okay im gonna look
Sorel- Toronto says:
only NLH events for now
thor says:
h dude just made sick blf
Sorel- Toronto says:
ship hh
thor says:
k 1 sec
thor says:
nutsinho: no thought...sigh
Dealer: Game #19247960778: thorladen wins pot ($100)
thorladen: dude im a station
Sorel- Toronto says:
..
Sorel- Toronto says:
Okay so heres the deal... it's almost exactly $10000 for all NL holdem events not including the heads up
Sorel- Toronto says:
assuming $500 for 100R which might be a little bit conservative
Sorel- Toronto says:
and assuming ev1 does all 1 rebuy and 1 addons
Sorel- Toronto says:
and 1500 in the 300 R
Sorel- Toronto says:
and not including the heads up tourney
Sorel- Toronto says:
comes to $10063
Sorel- Toronto says:
so say we had 4 players total
Sorel- Toronto says:
and each of them played 4
Sorel- Toronto says:
total investment would be around $161
Sorel- Toronto says:
k
Sorel- Toronto says:
161k
thor says:
161 total or per person?
Sorel- Toronto says:
total
Sorel- Toronto says:
just for ftops
thor says:
so 54ish each?
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya
thor says:
thats not so bad
Sorel- Toronto says:
but
Sorel- Toronto says:
we want to have at least 200k
Sorel- Toronto says:
just to make everything neat and tiday
thor says:
well we will
Sorel- Toronto says:
tidy
thor says:
in tornesy
thor says:
so i dont thk we need that much
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya good point
Sorel- Toronto says:
now heres where it gets confusing
Sorel- Toronto says:
adi just got out of makeup after he cashed deep in the series and went on a sick run this weekend
Sorel- Toronto says:
which is good, now hes only in a few k makeup
Sorel- Toronto says:
chris on the other handd is in about 60-70k makeup i think
Sorel- Toronto says:
so you and roman would need to buy the makeup from me so that we can all be equal
Sorel- Toronto says:
obviously we'll take whatever the figure is and contribute it towards the fund
thor says:
i see that is compicated
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya , because how do we calculate how much makeup is worth
thor says:
need DAUT to help
thor says:
he my guy for tha ****
Sorel- Toronto says:
personally i think that if the makeup is small and the player is trustworthey and a winning player the
makeup should be worth 100%
Sorel- Toronto says:
ya def
thor says:
ya but problem is im not gona be with him forever unless i am
Sorel- Toronto says:
hmm
Sorel- Toronto says:
ok
Sorel- Toronto says:
i thought of something but its not completely clear
Sorel- Toronto says:
like
Sorel- Toronto says:
what if we disclude makeup from the equation for the ftops and then after the ftops if they are down then
the makeup goes to me and somehow you guys are compensate for it?
Sorel- Toronto says:
i honestly dont know
Sorel- Toronto says:
wait ya
Sorel- Toronto says:
but if they win
Sorel- Toronto says:
then
Sorel- Toronto says:
we all get our equal shares
thor says:
lets thk qabt it later
Sorel- Toronto says:
and i get their shares until they are out of makeup?
Sorel- Toronto says:
ok
